The Early County Massacre: An interview with author Orice Jenkins Pt 2

Ben 00:01-00:38

Aris, welcome back to Crime Capsule. Thanks for having me again. It is a pleasure, man. Last week, we had just left Grandison Goolsbee and his son, Ulysses, and members of their family who had just shot and killed a white man named Henry Villapeague, who had attempted to shoot and kill them. And they know at this exact moment that their entire world is about to change.

Orice 00:38-04:03

Yeah, that's right. And Grenison sprung into action immediately. And I'm kind of amazed at how it's almost like he had a plan already of what to do in case you're about to get lynched. But he, you know, went to all of his friends and his family members who all lives, you know, near him on his land. And he told them, y'all need to hide. You need to get out of here. You need to save yourselves because they're going to try to kill all of us. And he specifically went to his close friend, Martin Hash Jewel, who I've also determined after writing the book that they were related. They were cousins. But he went to Hash and basically charged Hash with saving his sons. And this required transporting his sons to Cedar Springs, Georgia, which is a town at the other end of the county from where they were. And the Grandison had an uncle there named Ed Law. And Ed Law could safely harbor the two brothers until they could get away. So Hatch Jewel almost certainly did this. And we know this because he was arrested for this later on. But yeah, he went and brought those two sons basically to safety, although then it was up to Ed Law to bring them to the train station, which was closer to Cedar Springs. And all of that happened before I believe before the lynching mobs were even formed, I believe that the Goolsbee brothers were already safely away, early counties on the Alabama border. So once they got on the train that night, you know, they were in Alabama within minutes. And then that trains kept going westward, you know, so they were in Mississippi. But, um, Granison, of course, did not have the same fate, you know, he harbored, he was harbored by his friend, Charlie Holmes. And Charlie Holmes was, again, one of his Lodge brothers, another part of the prominent black families of Early County, the Holmes family. And yeah, that's where Granison was, and eventually someone found out that's where he was. And, you know, that's unfortunately where Granison was lynched. and as well as many of his family members that were lynched the night before and the day after that. So, it was a three-day mass lynching that was the result of basically Henry Villapeak's wife saying, three black people, she didn't say black people, but I'm going to say black people, three black people shot my husband in the back. That's what she told the sheriff. So, Sheriff Jack Howell and his son, Deputy Sheriff Sid Howell, you know, they led the lynching mobs that resulted in the deaths of these family members of mine.

Ben 04:05-05:57

You know, it is impossible to read your account and not feel the terror that your ancestors must have felt in those hours, those brief couple of days, as they knew that the mob was forming, as they knew that the you know, the white folks in the area were coming after them with fire and with firearms and with blades, and to recognize that they did not know how many hours they had left on this earth. And this fear was spreading throughout the entire black community of Early County, because this mob was absolutely bloodthirsty. And it is just, reading it now, you have done so much work to put us in the minds and in the hearts of these men and women who are fleeing for their lives. and just to recognize that sense of like, you can't trust the law, you can't trust, you know, anyone who you do not know and know personally and know intimately and who know, you know, has your back, right? And I just don't think many of us know what that experience is like. You know, I think it is a, It is such a powerful testimony to the depth of struggle and fear that is, it is just, there's too much distance between us and them. You know what I mean? Historically, for us to really fully appreciate what they go through, and you do such a marvelous job in those early chapters of your book, where you really help us to see it. So it's powerful work. It's powerful work.

Orice 05:57-08:31

Thank you. I don't know that I feel the same distance that you might feel. And I think maybe black people in America even now can probably relate in a lot of ways to the feelings expressed in my book, even though that was in 1915. You know, events like that kept happening. I mean, I can even think of events as recent as the 1980s, where black communities were bombed in Philadelphia. You know, I can think about Of course, moments like Emmett Till, which happened during my own parents' generation lifetime. I can think about the violence that happened after Dr. Martin Luther King Jr. was killed in 1968. I think about some of the violence that I've seen in my own life after some brutal murders of young black men my age. I'm not saying it's exactly the same, but that same fear that I felt in those times, I can kind of imagine, especially since I do have actual video recordings of survivors talking about it.

And so I can really look them in their eyes. And I guess I'm kind of empathetic in a lot of ways. So I can feel when people are telling me their experiences, I can sometimes feel how they felt. So that's how I feel when I'm watching these videos or listening to these recordings or even talking to like like Simon Goolsby who was Grannison's brother He was killed The day before Grannison. He was the first person killed in the massacre and his wife lived until 1979 So I know lots of people that knew her yeah, and so they've told me this is you know kind of a secondhand account, but they've told me how she felt about You know, and she described for them, you know, my husband was mobbed. That's what she, that's how she described it.

And she even described how she had to save her son by hiding him in the floorboards of the house. Her son lived until 2006. So, you know, there's still that connection. I understand that it is distant, it being 109 years ago, but it really wasn't that long ago. It's really just yesterday in a lot of ways.

Ben 08:32-08:58

Yeah. No, and that's completely fair. And I absolutely take your point. Um, what I'm, all I'm trying to say is you collapse the distance of a hundred years beautifully. I mean, you really do such a good job of, of removing all of that, um, you know, that time and space and putting us right there, you know, with the sort of the torchlight coming over the Hill, you know, and, um, that is, I appreciate that.

Orice 08:58-10:57

I don't want to take the credit for that, I guess, because, Again, it was so real in the way that people were describing it to me and just so, you know, I feel like I know these people, if that makes sense, because I'm a genealogist. That's where I'm kind of coming from this, you know, I study people in very intimate ways. Every record about them, I collect them. I follow their walk through life from birth until death. So that's what I've done with all the people in this book. So I feel like I know them. I feel close to them. So it was really easy for me to kind of paint the pictures of what it was like for them during that time. And it was, yeah, it was just, I was, I felt like I was fully immersed in this massacre. I felt the fear. I also felt the survival instincts kicking in. Because that's kind of what I wanted to focus on in the book is that When I first found the articles, there were like twice as many people that were reported as killed in this massacre. And it turns out that half of those people actually survived. So I'm thinking, wow, what did they have to do to make it through this?

You know, and those people that survived, like I said, they lived into the 70s, into the 1950s, the 1930s. I mean, they lived into more, you know, you know, more recent times. And I'm just like, wow, I can't imagine living through that than having to live the rest of your life as if it didn't happen. Because there was no justice, there was no, you know, but they had to just kind of do that. And it's, again, I relate it to a lot of the moments that I felt in my life when something horribly traumatic happens and we're just expected to move on the next day as if nothing ever happened.

Ben 10:58-12:05

Yeah, of course, it calls to mind that, you know, timeless observation by William Faulkner that the past isn't dead, it isn't even past, right? And we just see that replayed in so many different contexts, you know, in this modern day and age. The empathy that you describe, I think, is a major, major part of this book. And there is a paragraph right at the heart of the book that I would love for you to take us to. And it's where you describe Mike and Ulysses going on that train, you know, fleeing for their safety to Mississippi. And here you have, you know, two teenage boys who have been just uprooted from everything they've ever known and are literally fleeing for their lives in a matter of hours after this event. It's a paragraph that's on page 54, and I was just wondering if you would read that for us. It's a short paragraph, but I think it really does take us to all of these different emotions, you know, and experiences that you're describing. Would you read that for us?

Orice 12:06-12:44

Sure. Imagine being a teenager raised in a community full of love and support. All of a sudden being put on a train by a grand uncle to a land unknown. Spending three weeks there longing to go back home, expecting everything to return to normal. Being apprehended by a white stranger who would get paid for the capture and the imprisonment of his targets. Having to hear him recount the violent deaths of five close family members. Just imagine.

Ben 12:49-13:40

One of the things I love about this book is that level of empathy in your writing. I mean, you know, these men and women, they are your family members, and you can understand what they're going through. And it just puts us there in a way that is very difficult to achieve on the page, but you absolutely do it. Can I ask you, This is, in a sense, a kind of a break point in the story, right? They do manage to make it to safety. But what's interesting is that, as you write, this is absolutely not the end of their trial, by any stretch of the imagination. They have only fled one terrible situation to end up in a much longer and more protracted and trying set of circumstances. Next in some ways. It's like they're their story is only beginning at this moment, isn't it?

Orice 13:40-15:37

That's right. That's that's It's it's the beginning of what I call the rest of the book Because they've they have survived the massacre. And so you see the book is called the early County Massacre Then there's a subtitle cools me versus the state of Georgia That's the rest of the book, is Goolsbee versus the State of Georgia. And they're really, they're being, and I said in my preface, I think, that they were targeted by their government for the rest of their lives, basically. You know, it was, and then just the reality of it, again, all of the white people that murdered Granison Goolsby, Simon Goolsby, Early Hightower, Edmund Law, and Precious Hall. None of them were ever investigated, ever arrested, ever tried any of that. The only people that were sought out by the law was Granison's two sons, to the point where, yes, they got away, they got to Mississippi, your home state, but in early county, They had, you know, like you said, they were like bloodthirsty. They really wanted to get these two black teenagers who had almost nothing to do with the situation. I mean, Mike wasn't even there at the initial incident on the road. And Mike had nothing to do with the shooting of Henry Villapique. And we don't really know if Ulysses did either. But it didn't matter. They were there. And they were Granderson's sons. So. according to the unethical Jim Crow law, they were guilty of murdering the white man that had just tried to kill them.

Ben 15:37-15:40

Purely by association, the guy who'd whipped Ulysses first.

Orice 15:40-17:24

Whipped Ulysses first and shot at them the following day, which is the only reason that he was shot, because he was shooting at them. So they were all guilty and they went from early County Georgia all the way to Cleveland, Mississippi, just to try and find these two young men. I don't know if it's like 700 miles, 800 miles, something like that. It's a ways. Yeah. Yeah. It's a long way. And in 1915, you know, on a horse, but it was, That's all they cared about in the county is punishing these two young men. And then the person that caught them would actually get paid, because there was a reward from the governor. The governor at that time, who was also a former Confederate soldier, by the way. So, yeah, it was, you see the greed, you see the hate, you see the, The racism, basically, you see all of that coming into play when you think about the position that the Goolsbee brothers were in at this time. And yet, is there time to grieve? Because they left before the massacre started, they didn't know that their family had been killed. When do they grieve? When does their mother grieve? Their mother who lost a husband, a brother-in-law, all these other of people in her husband's family, now they're chasing her sons, her two oldest sons. So did she have a chance to grieve? I don't think so.

Ben 17:24-18:50

And that is just such the reality of Jim Crow at the time. It is horrific in every single way. You write very explicitly about the this the challenge, first of all, the kind of the logistical challenge of recovering your family's memory, right, and the memory of this community. But also, you know, you write about the, I just got to ask you, these photographs, these photographs, they are such a narrative themselves. And you write about the story of what happened to the extended family through time, but you also show us your family members in ways that do as much storytelling work, right, as the actual narrative itself. And I love these photographs. I'm thinking particularly of the one of Mary Hutchins Goolsby, gorgeous, I mean, beautiful woman, and dignified and stately and just has this presence, you know, about her. How did you find these photographs? And how, were they just saved, you know, throughout generations? Or did you kind of stumble on them? And then, you know, how did you work them in as part of the narrative that you ended up telling of the events?

Orice 18:50-24:30

Yeah, thank you for that. And that photo of Mary is also my favorite. And I want to point out that photo is from after the massacre. So I see how beautiful and stateless she is. But I can also I can see her pain, and I can see her sorrow, and I can see her strength. Because she's still there, still standing, even though she's been through literally the worst thing you could imagine ever happening to your family. It's happened to her. And she's still standing strong. And she was not going to leave her house and her land. You know, she stayed there and stayed strong for her sons. She still had two other sons. She had four sons total. But yeah, let me tell you about how I got these photos, which I never thought was possible. because my grandmother had no photos from our family. She had no photos of any of our family members, not even of her own mother, who I knew. I mean, my great-grandmother lived all the way to 2001. Wow. And I didn't even have any photos of her. Oh, goodness. So I was really, in my mind, thinking there are no photos. I didn't even expect, I didn't even think to look for photos.

I just knew that there just weren't going to be any. And boy, was I wrong. But I got those photos the first day that I ever spoke to a wonderful woman named Char Goolsby. Char Goolsby wrote my foreword. And Char Goolsby is the granddaughter of Mike Goolsby. Got it. Mike is one of the brothers that was arrested for murdering Henry Villaby. So, when you say come down through the generations, I mean, it's only one generation. I mean, Mike's son is alive now. So, and I know him. I can call him right now. He has an iPhone. I can text him. I can call him. He might be 88 years old, but there's no generations removed. His father, yeah, this book is about his father.

So, now he didn't have the pictures, but his brother, Mike Goolsby Jr. had these pictures. And Mike, for some reason, made sure that before he died that he copied them and gave them to Char, which is his niece. So, and Char has lived in every corner of this country. But for some reason, she always kept those photos nearby. And when I finally found her, I've been looking for her for years, and I finally found her, And we spoke for the first time. And she said, I have photos. I have them right here. And most of those photos that you'll see, especially in that section where I showed Mary and then two of her sons and her twin sister, there's a section where there's like four pictures right in a row in the book. And they're full page pictures because of how well they're so beautifully preserved.

Char had all of those as well as the photos on the cover of the book, which Mary's in one of those photos as well with her husband and the two boys that are the subject of the book as babies. They're on the cover of the book. And then the other photo on the cover of the book features two of the other sons, the youngest two sons, as well as their first cousin, and an unidentified man, which is why I put that one on the cover, because I'm still trying to find out who one of these men is on the photo of the cover.

So Char had all those photos. She had some notes from her uncle about who they were, which was great, because when she had the Mary and Martha, I was like, oh, my god. Yeah, they're twins. They look so much alike. And then I was able to figure out who they were once I also found another Goolsbee who had a different copy of one of the same photos. And she was able to identify who her ancestor was in that photo. And that helped me figure out who the rest of the people were. So it was really all by chance because the family is very disjointed. We don't know each other. Now we do, thanks to the book. But before this, we didn't know each other. So, I had to go through really strange means to find people and, you know, a little stalkerish, you know. It's called being a historian, right? Sometimes you got to do those things if you really want to, you know, find what you need. But thankfully, nobody had a problem with it. They were just confused at first because like, how do you know my family? How do you know? And I'm like, well, we're related and I've written this book. So thankfully, it all turned out pretty great. Everybody was excited about the book and happy to provide photos, even the photo of Hatch Jewel. That's a long story how I got that photo because all the copies people had of it were damaged. And so I went through five damaged copies of the photo before I found one that could actually be used in the book. Oh, wow, that's interesting. And his wife and several of their children. So that's a great photo.

Ben 24:30-25:35

I didn't think I'd ever have that either. Yeah, they are worth the price of admission alone. I mean, they're just absolutely remarkable. I love seeing the resemblance, not just between Mary and Martha, but between Nathaniel and Roosevelt, right? I mean, man, they look sharp in those images. And you can just see it's It's really cool, and I love how that is a part of not just honoring them, but actually an integral part of the work of the recovery of historic memory here, you know, and it is fantastic. Now, because you mentioned your family in this context, one or two more questions for you before we begin to wrap up. You actually mentioned that this year is really special, because it may be the first year of any kind of formal observance of the massacre down in Early County. And you're actually potentially part of that. Can you describe kind of what might be going on in a little, you know, in a couple of weeks, couple of months sort of thing?

Orice 25:35-27:51

Yeah. It's something I'm actually totally organizing it myself. Yeah, yeah. Because it's going to happen. I don't and I don't care if no one if it's just me there I don't care if no one supports me. It's just me there, but and I know I'm gonna get a lot of support I've already received a lot of support from the county officials from state officials You know from the mayor of Blakely, Georgia who came to my book signing Twice actually he came to two book signings so and I appreciate that because I didn't know what response I was going to get from Blakely. But I think they understand that I'm not writing this book to disparage Early County. Early County is what made me. I wouldn't be here if it weren't for this county. It's a beautiful place, and I love going there. But it's time to reckon with our history. And it's also time to properly memorialize these people who had to be buried at the cover of night in secrecy.

Yeah. They didn't have a service. The pastor had to just whisper a Bible verse or two and, you know, I don't even know if they had caskets or anything. I mean, it was very, very minimal. And especially with Granison being a Mason, you know, that's unusual when, you know, you're supposed to have a Mason ceremony and all these they were very involved in their church, Pleasant Grove AME Church, which my ancestor founded. So I feel like it's only right, even if it is just me there. And again, I know it's not going to be just me there, but on December 28th, which is the day that everything got started in the road with Ulysses and Henry Villapigue, we're going to Blakely. And my mom is coming, her sister's coming. I got lots of family members coming. like even Martha Mosey, who was Mary's twin sister, her descendants are coming from California, and I've never met them before. They didn't know anything about this.

Ben 27:51-27:52

Wow, okay, yeah.

Orice 27:52-27:54

They had no idea.

Ben 27:54-27:57

What a gift, what a gift.

Orice 27:57-28:13

Yeah, I'm really grateful. So, I mentioned that there was a wedding, right? That's where Ulysses was going when he was attacked by Henry Philippi. He was going to a wedding, I found out what couple was getting married that day.

Ben 28:13-28:14

Oh, wow.

Orice 28:14-28:18

And I found their descendants, and they're coming as well.

Ben 28:18-28:25

Oh, how about that? That's amazing. Nice job, man. That's some solid research right there. I love that. That's amazing.

Orice 28:25-28:40

And they knew something happened, too. They knew something happened at Grandma and Grandpa's wedding. They didn't know it was all this, but they knew it was bad. And yeah, so this will be their first time coming to Blakely as well.

Ben 28:40-28:56

Yeah, the only problem with doing this, Aris, is, and this is a very good problem to have, is that there's a very real chance that you might find more photos, right? I mean, you might suddenly start, you know, these family members start showing up and it's like, here it comes, baby, here it comes.

Orice 28:58-29:35

And I already have. I found the best photo. I'm going to put it on my website or something so people can see it, because it didn't make it into the book, of course. But just weeks ago, I connected with actually someone else whose father is in my book. His father was Julius Goolsbee, which I talk about in the preface. I talk about Julius Goolsbee, who married one of my cousins. And Julius was the first cousin of Granis and Goolsby.

Ben 29:35-29:36

Got it.

Orice 29:36-30:04

So I finally made contact with Julius's son, who I've been trying to reach again for many, many years. I finally talked to him about two months ago. He says, oh, I have a photo. I wanted a photo. I wanted a photo of his father. That's what I wanted. Right. I wanted that to be in the book. Obviously, we're too late for that. He still has not sent me a photo of his father, but he sent me a photo of his grandfather.

Ben 30:04-30:06

So Grandison's dad.

Orice 30:06-30:08

Grandison's uncle.

Ben 30:08-30:09

Uncle, excuse me.

Orice 30:09-30:12

But also in the photo is Grandison's father.

Ben 30:12-30:14

Oh, man, look at that.

Orice 30:14-31:34

And their other brother. And their sister. Wow. Four people who I had researched As enslaved people, I have their slavery records. When they were children, they were enslaved. Now I have a photo of all four of them. Incredible. I mean, I just could not believe. And when you look at the photo, and again, he wasn't quite sure who was who, but he could tell me who two of the people were for sure. Once he told me those two, I was able to figure out very quickly who the other two were. And then I realized, wait, that means this one in the corner here is Mike Boothley, Grannison's father. And I looked at the photo at his face close up, and I was like, oh, that's definitely Grattison's father. I mean, he looked so similar to Grattison. I was just like, wow, I can't believe I found this. And it, you know, just the everything, all the work that I had done to research these families, you know, that photo wouldn't have meant anything if I hadn't done all this work before that. I wouldn't have known who those people were. So now, I'm glad that I found it at this late stage in research, because now I'm able to fully understand who these people were, and the importance of this photo. People that were born in the 1830s and 1840s. Black people. I mean, that's very, very rare.

Ben 31:34-31:48

Extremely rare. I mean, almost unheard of. That is such an exceptional find. And it sounds to me, I'm not trying to get all woo-woo here at the end, but I mean, it sounds to me like you were meant to write this book. Like, you had to write this book, you know?

Orice 31:49-32:55

I felt like it was my duty, and I didn't have a choice. People keep commending me on doing all this great work, and I'm like, I didn't have a choice. There's no way you can, I can discover all this information and not do something with it and not share it with, especially the descendants. Like, for example, the sister of those Goolsbee brothers that's in that photo with all four of them, the sister, I know her descendants. Her descendants were very helpful with me writing this book. So I was like, well, I have to share this with them. They've never seen this. So I'm sending a photo of someone's, you know, great, great, great grandmother to this person who helped me write the book. And they're just amazed. And I'm like, well, what was I going to do, keep it to myself forever? I mean, it's my duty, it's my responsibility to share this with the people because my ancestor's not in that photo. But anyone I could find who is descended from those four people, I am sharing that photo with them. It's just too incredible to not share.

Ben 32:55-33:22

That's amazing. No, I hope you can get this great reproduction of it and just make as many copies as they'll let you. And just let that be a testament to the wonderful work that you and your extended family have done here, keeping this story alive. Really, the only question I have for you left is, now, where can folks get a copy of Early County Massacre? So how can they find you? How can they find the book? What's the best way?

Orice 33:23-34:32

Well, from orisjenkins.com, O-R-I-C-E-J-E-N-K-I-N-S.com is the best place to go. All the links are there. There's a page dedicated to the early county massacre right there that also tells the story and shows some of the pictures, but Not really. There's a lot of pictures in the book that I'm not putting on my website because I want you to really get the book and see them in print and really see them next to the story. But there's pictures that aren't in the book. So I put those on my website so you can kind of get a sense of the area and also a map of kind of where things happen. But I actually, I did, I made my own map in the book. So still get the book, but I did a little Google Map thing for my website to show kind of where some of the things happened. And there's also links to purchase the book right there, but you can also purchase on Arcadia's website. Arcadia Publishing is, you know, obviously how I publish the book. Yeah, anywhere you get books, you know, your local bookstore, of course. I always want to support local bookstores, and I'm grateful for the lots of local bookstores all across the country that have been selling my books.

Ben 34:34-34:48

Well, it is a remarkable piece of work and incredibly well written and just deeply researched and very powerful narrative here. Thank you so much for joining us. This has been a true privilege to have you.

Orice 34:48-35:00

Thank you so much. Pleasure is all mine. And I'm so grateful for this opportunity to share the story. And you have a very cool podcast. So I'm honored to be among the very interesting stories that are on here.

Ben 35:01-35:16

You're too kind, and we couldn't do it without just the gifts that, you know, the authors who tell these stories give us. So, the gratitude, I assure you, starts here and goes right back to you. So, thank you so much. We'll see you soon. Take care.